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Thursday, May 5, 2011

Osama bin Laden

by Michael


Since President Obama made the announcement that Osama Bin Laden was killed I have been in a funk that I didn't understand. Watching Americans celebrate was almost intolerable. Then I came across these two articles...one from a Muslim point of view...the other Christian......and although I am neither Muslim nor Christian, they helped me understand what I have been feeling. If any of you are having trouble with this matter, I hope you find some relief in this reading.....

Mustafaa Carroll offers a Muslim perspective on the death of terrorist leader Osama bin Laden.

Osama bin Laden’s death brings relief to the Muslim community and further inspires people of all faiths to fight hate, but people shouldn’t be so quick to do all-out celebrations or condemn the leader to hell, according to Mustafaa Caroll, the director of the Houston chapter of the Council on American-Islamic relations. 
I chatted with Carroll this morning, the day after President Barack Obama announced U.S. forces had killed the al-Qaida head.
What was your initial reaction to the news Osama bin Laden had died?
I was praying that it would bring closure to the families who had family members killed on 9/11. He has served as a pinnacle of terrorism, and I’m relieved that the threat of his leadership is gone.
Would you say bin Laden was to blame for the current status of Muslims in America?
He has a part in it. I can’t say Osama bin Laden created discrimination and hatred against Muslims, but what he did didn’t help.
We all have the responsibility to fight hate. I put the ownership on all of us to join together against this because it’s been going on in different religious groups in this country…. Terrorism doesn’t discriminate. The bombs didn’t just kill one group of people. They killed all of us.
From a Muslim perspective, what’s the fate of bin Laden, in terms of punishment or salvation? Gov. Mike Huckabee, for example, said, “Welcome to hell, bin Laden.”

Bin Laden, just like any other person, is under God’s grace. He might be punished, but there is not some eternal hell. We don’t know what his penance will be. Our Quran says if you kill one innocent soul, you kill all of mankind and if you save one soul, you save all of mankind. There is no sense of a “forever hell” for anybody. We need to remember that God is merciful.
Reports say that he’s been buried at sea. In terms of Islamic burial code, does that raise concerns? Or because he was who he was, does it even matter?
Even though he did disobey God, his body didn’t. We are commanded to be a certain way, and it appears to be a violation (of Islamic law). He should be buried like any other Muslim. We should not treat him differently because his judgment is not up to us now. I’m not an Islamic scholar, so I don’t know if there are exceptions, but that’s my gut reaction. We should always follow our own edicts.
There has been some hesitancy from people of faith to celebrate bin Laden’s death because he was killed and killed in a pretty violent way. As a Muslim, what do you think?
I don’t celebrate anybody’s death. I don’t believe that’s a Muslim edict. We are thankful that whatever pain has been relieved, that it brings resolution and closure.
I think it’s premature to even celebrate… we have to look at the situation that helped created and deify (bin Laden). Osama bin Laden represents a tragedy to this world. I am sick of people fighting and dying and claiming to be right. We need to listen to our better angels and go to our holy books – the Torah, the Quran, the Bible—what do they say is right?

The Christian Perspective   
Other than Hamas, I haven’t seen anyone claiming that the successful U.S. plot to kill Osama bin Laden was a bad thing, but it remains a complex issue.
The reaction to bin Laden’s death has been the cathartic release that the country needed after the deadly 9/11 attacks, some scholars say.
“The U.S. has lived under this cloud for over a decade, so it’s an opportunity for people to feel like the U.S. got its revenge to some extent,” said Leonard Steinhorn, an expert on politics and pop culture at American University.
The end of bin Laden is more like the end of World War II or the fall of the Berlin Wall, so “to be taken solely as a murder without the context of war” would be misleading, Steinhorn said. Still, the idea of celebrating a person’s death so publicly and cavalierly has moral implications that cut across religious lines.
“Regardless of what our foe deserved, our revelry in such base things harms ourselves – harms our own humanity and empathy, and that will have wider effects on ourselves and our community than intended,” wrote Houston Humanist minister D.T. Strain in his blog. “This is why we no longer drag murderers through the streets or hang them in public exhibitions – because of the kind of people that makes us.”
For Christians, though, it’s not just about avoiding this kind of celebration… the ask is something much greater: Love your enemies.
“Christians, regardless of what they feel, are called to love Mr. bin Laden and that means we pray for him, we pray for his family and we pray for the people he has deeply hurt,” said Robert Kruschwitz, director of Baylor University's Center for Christian Ethics. 
That’s right, love the murder-espousing, America-hating, disgusting, horrible terrorist that was responsible for the deaths of thousands.
Love him. Want the best for him. I doubt many humanists/agnostics/atheists would go that far. (And why would they? Outside of Christianity, it doesn’t make sense.) **(see footnote)
“True Christian life, to live it out, it’s not easy. In the Beatitudes, Jesus said, ‘You have heard it said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I say turn the other cheek….’ He upped the ante,” said the Rev. Mike Buentello, at the University of St. Thomas in Houston.
It can be a difficult position for people of faith, but part of the reality of living in a world where hateful people gain power and influence, not only people like Osama bin Laden, but also Adoph Hitler (who was announced dead on the same day, May 1, in 1945), Joseph Stalin, Timothy McVeigh, Anwar al-Awlaki and others.
“This is not a unique situation. There have been other masterminds. As persons of faith, we have to deal with the presence of evil in this world,” said Buentello. “It’s an ongoing battle for our souls. That’s why the Vatican statement said we all have a serious responsibility for what we do in this life.”
**yes it does......I think human compassion and knowing the difference between right and wrong transcends religion......I am just saying that this is the first thing I have read to help me with my own perspective......and naturally there will be insults on the radical Christian side of most things. Mike Huckabee can't even get his own religion right....and this article wants to insult humanists/agnostics/atheists....... baloney! Michael

46 comments:

  1. I love this!!!!! My family had this exact conversation over dinner the other night. The kids and hubby had been thinking the same thing as me. It's the first time we talked about something really serious and not once did the twins argue with each other. They actually talked and listened to each other!!!! We just don't believe any kind of killing is right! The problem here is that it would cause more problems if we took him alive. I just don't understand how anyone could celebrate this. Maybe if I lost someone from 9/11 or in the military I would feel a sense of relief, but I could never celebrate his death!

    And bear.....at work the other day, when we were talking about ur article, this is where our conversation led to......isn't that crazy!!!!

    Michael, thank you for sending this in.......love, R~ :D

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  2. I hope this made sense.......it really is hard typing on a Barbie computer! Ill never make fun of u again, Di!!!!! :D

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  3. MICHAEL: This is a complicated issue precisely because so many raw emotions are involved. My thinking is..he was truly evil..and now there is one less evil person in the world. I understand forgiveness, I understand turning the other cheek..and I'm usually one of the first people to do that..but not this time.

    On another, related note..do I want to see the photos of his dead body? No I don't. I think we're just asking for trouble if we release them.

    TINA: Good to see you moaning so early in the morn! I don't think killing is right either..but in this case I don't see as they had much of a choice. In fact..I don't think they had any choice at all.

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  4. AS A CHRISTIAN, THIS IS A HARD ONE TO FORGIVE.FOR NOW,I JUST SAY GOOD BY TO AN EVIL SEED. HIS EVIL PLAN KILLED OVER 3,000 PEOPLE AT ONE TIME. HE GOT WHAT HE DESERVED. I WAS IN N.Y.S AT THE MINUTE THAT DAY HAPPEN WATCHING TV AND HAVING MY MORNING COFFEE.I FOR ONE WILL NEVER FORGET. FISH FOOD.

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  5. Good Morning Tina, Zona and Tampagranny. Wishing you and all owls a happy Thursday.

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  6. Michael - Thank you for doing such great research on this issue. It is very early in the morning for me to even think of Bin Laden so I will give my opinion this afternoon.

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  7. I have an appointment with my pharmacist this morning so I will be back later in the day.

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  8. Tina, now, that was an interesting evolution of the conversation! Just as with the Catholic and Christian Evangelical churches, Islam is used as a fascist tool in almost every Muslim country in the world to persecute, imprison, and execute gays, and I imagine Osama Bin Laden would have led the cheers for the persecution had he succeeded in setting up the Islamic worldwide theocracy that he craved.

    Looking at the bigger picture, I'm just delighted that Bin Laden and Al Quaida's support in the Arab world has dwindled in the years since 9/11, and the recent unrest that is sweeping the Arab world has a decidedly un-fundamentalist bent. Obama was an evil person, but regimes that restrict the freedom of their own people under the guise of religion perpetuate evil on a far greater scale than one man ever could.

    Down with Islamic dictatorships! Up with US-style democracies!!!!

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  9. Can't believe I typed "Obama"! Ooopsies!

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  10. Bear~ I don't think Obama is evil!!! Lq~

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  11. Everybodys doin' it!! Its an easy mistake...Obama - Osama...lol

    I just heard that rather than release the photos they are going to air drop them into an affluent Pakistani neighborhood so they won't be found for years...

    I am glad that Bin Laden is gone too!! I' just not going to race around in my car with an American flag poking out the sunroof with the "Stars and Stripes Forever" blasting from my car stereo....

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  12. Roberto...

    I spoke to you about some "things" in area 51 late last evening...

    I was wondering about the shuttle launch...

    Since you work for NASA would you have a better vantage point for seeing the take off than the "regular people"...??

    Might you get to meet the Captains wife!?!?

    I hope it works out so that you get to be there....and..

    whats next...after the shuttle program?

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  13. Oh yeah! Happy Cinco de carramba to my Mescan amigos...


    and Dianne....I got a text from Tina yestiddy with a pic of her lunch...I think it was some type of sea monster...you could see where its legs had been ripped from its body....

    She said it was yummy but you and I both know how badly it must have stunk.....

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  14. Tina Happy Cinco de Mayo! You are looking especially pretty today. It is also my son's 40th b-day today.

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  15. Michael Great blog! Thank you for sending it in. You are right in that it is unseemly to be celebrating anyone's death. I must admit I did have feelings about it.....relief, perhaps, and satisfaction, that the hunt has been concluded. Basically, a "job well done" feeling. Oh, and pride and awe at the bravery of the military personel that carried out this tricky maneuver.

    With that said, I do understand why the people of New York City gathered at Ground Zero to rejoice that the man responsible for bringing such horror to their city had finally been dealt a fatal blow.

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  16. Zona There's always a choice but this was the only logical and manageable one.

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  17. Tampagranny I agree that forgiveness is a really difficult thing to do.

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  18. Tinka Waving a wing at you. I hope you've had a lovely morning.

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  19. I seem to march to my own drummer.

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  20. hi J/L....

    what gets me the most is that I think people were focusing their fear and hate in the wrong direction...

    no one will ever convince me that 9/11 was the work of foreign terrorists...

    if you study the financial situation of the WTC...that alone raises questions...

    The facts and even news footage (before it disappeared)tells me that something much more sinister was afoot that day....

    The people who were in the subterranean levels that heard the first major explosion and saw the people burned way before an airplane hit either of the towers is evidence enough for me.....but when a news anchor standing in front of WT7 and announces its collapse before it has even happened is a little more than strange...

    We haven't been told the truth about 9/11 and probably won't ever hear it...

    I think the truth would be a lot harder to take than what we have been told...

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  21. Howdy TINA at first when she isn 't even in town. See, I told you it was hard to type on a tiny computer.. You finally realize what J/L and I go through sometimes.

    MICHAEL: Very interesting blog. I am glad Osama is dead but I would not go and celebrate. It reminds me of how other countries celebrate death. Now....if I had a loved one die on 9/11, I may have a completely different perspective.

    Went to my cancer doctor today for my annual check up and it looks like I am okay....12 years since my melanoma....yay!!!

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  22. Dianne Yay! That's truly wonderful news.

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  23. I'm going to have a rant now, completely off-topic.

    The Post Office Sucks! Yesterday was Custards birthday and I mailed his gift last Friday. I paid for priority mail and was told it would be delivered last Monday, two days before his birthday. Well, it still hasn't arrived! If I'm lucky, it will get there tomorrow which is the day it would have gotten there if I hadn't paid the extra money. Shit! And no, I did not ask for delivery confirmation and did not insure it. That isn't the point, anyway. It was important to me that he have it in time for his birthday.

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  24. J/L...lol

    Oh Pulease what!?

    your package? It'll get there tomorrow. Never fails....

    J/L...did you know that before long we will have bar codes in our eyeballs? And not by choice either...

    Airport security has become what it is to condition us for being herded and made subservient...

    Its called the New World Order...yeah...

    Government did 9/11 to terrorize us into given up more freedoms...which we have...

    there will come a time when 70% of the world pop. will be done away with and the remaining 30% will be used to create the NWO...

    Osama has been dead for years....they did this now to create a reason for another false flag attack like 9/11...sceer us some more...

    and to divert our attention from the "birth certificate"...

    well thats what I heard the guy at the meat market...and he is smart...

    Donald Trump has been a paid diversion for years. You don't think that "rat head" is for reals do ya??

    Basically everything is a plot or an attempt to be a plot and I will bet my plot on it!

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  25. Thats an excellent topic actually...ok...everyone reveal your plots....

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  26. I am a plant from the National Organization for Marriage.

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  27. Michael I'll see your plot and raise you one plot. LOL

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  28. I think it was Colonel Mustard in the observatory with the candle stick.

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  29. I am an alien sent to earth to study owl life forms....

    lol at Whabbear...

    speaking of Whabbear...ur just not going to answer my question about the launch are you?

    Col. Mustard??!!?? lol...who dat?

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  30. Hi--babysitting my grandsons tonight
    How did u like AI tonight, J/L? I was good with the results. I'm on my phone so can't type much but I always like to talk to month on here since it calls her Month

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  31. Di~ I was kinda makin' fun of ya typing on ur phone!!!! I like it!!!!!! :D

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  32. Good evening feathered friends!

    My compter is being bitchy again, so THANK YOU ZONA for sending me the comment page.

    TINA...are you visiting #1 son? If so, why does he have a Barbie computer? ija!

    JUST LIN...yes, the PO sux. It tells people I am dead!

    DIANNE...I adore when you call me MONTH!! Makes me laugh out loud!

    MICHAEL...Interesting blog. I value life, so it could be confusing celebrating the death of someone, but I am not confused. I am glad he is dead. He gave life no value (except his own) and deprived almost 3000 people the chance to live their lives and many thousands more the chance to have fathers, sons, husbands and friends in their life. What I feel bad about is that he wasn't killed sooner. And I kinda wish he was made to suffer instead of a quick bullet to the head.

    Am I a witch, bitch or terrible person? Maybe, but I will accept that in this case.

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  33. I have my plot already...in the same cemetery as my parents and assorted relatives!

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  34. Michael It was a reference to a board game that's been around for many years called "Clue". The object is to solve a murder. You have to figure out which character did it, where they did it, and what weapon they used.

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  35. Dianne I just got home from dinner so am watching the last few minutes of AI. My son and I went out for prime rib dinners.

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  36. I guess I'm using my special powers again.

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  37. JUST LIN...HAPPY BIRTHDAY! I hope you have a fantabulous day!

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  38. I just want to know how much plot Michael's been smoking.

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  39. ROFLMBO Bebbi!!!! (i asked that same question the other night!!!!) lol.....good one~

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