by Bonacci
I’ve known Brandon for about 10 years. He had a bright future before I knew him, but I never saw that. Instead, I’ve seen the sad existence of a man who is fighting the demons of addiction. Why would a teen throw away a promising career? What could be so troubling to a kid that he would seek comfort in the arms of heroin? According to Brandon, it kills the loneliness. This is what he told Ville Valo of HIM when he was asked. Ville expressed his pain over Brandon’s situation in this edgy ballad. The ending seems to me to be inevitable for Brandon. I won’t be surprised to hear of it. In February of 2008, an intervention was arranged for someone we thought could be saved. It was very ugly and draining for everyone involved. This individual has been drug-free since that intervention, and he’s grateful that we did what had to be done. Could you do whatever it takes to save a friend or loved one?
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Bonachichi~ cool blog....but sad....love the song....but a bit afraid of the dang thing~
I'm not really pretty today~
yes you are!~
congrats on first LynnD~
Morning Glories!
Congrats on first me!
Bonacci addiction is such a complex issue. I was raised by an alcoholic and watched my brother go down the path of drugs. I am very lucky that both have pulled through and are not using for now. I do know that they can relapse at anytime.
I tried everything with both so yes I would go there. I also went to Al Anon for years to deal with my family members addiction and the best thing I learned was not to be co-dependent and to realize it is a disease. I can not control them but I can make sure I do not get caught up in their turmoil.
I was just thinking last night that in many ways we have become an addict society. With drug companies pushing their pills on TV and fast food chains pushing and competing it seems to come out with the most fattening food and so on and so on. If you have a predisposition to addiction it is like the fast train coming and will catch up eventually.
I personally know about 5 people who are truly addicted to prescription drugs. It drives me crazy.
Sometimes it is loneliness but many times it is a mask to not feel who we are. IMHO
Waving at Tina!!
BONACHICHI: I've never heard this song before..it really is very good.
Killing Loneliness..if only that were possible. Sometimes I think all we can do is push it aside for awhile..because at the end of the day we are all alone once again with our thoughts and fears.
Could I do whatever it takes to save someone?? I could. Would it be enough..I don't know. I only pray it would be.
LYNND: Congrats on FIRST!
I have a friend who's father was an alcholic and now she is facing the same situation with her SO. It's heartbreaking to see how tired and defeated she has become. She has hung in there for years..but nothing seems to ever change no matter how many interventions..how many stays in rehab. It really is sad.
Mornin' TINA!
HI, Zona, Lynn D, and Tina!
Zona, I share the frustration. My Mom got bad enough with her drinking that we had to do an intervention, and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. She wasn't at all ready to even own up to having a problem, so the whole thing was an exercise in frustration, emotional pain for everybody involved, and bitterness.
To top it all off, my younger sister, who wasn't there for the intervention, chooses that exact moment to call the cops (in Ontario.... from Alberta) and notify them that my Mom was a danger to the community if she got behind the wheel. The cops show up at the door, and my Mother totally freaks out! The last thing someone in denial wants is public reminders that they have a problem.
Bonacci: You pose an interesting question. Do people really do drugs... hard drugs... to combat loneliness? Perhaps! I agree with Zona... loneliness is there for all of us, almost omnipresent. At the end of the day (and the end of our lives), no matter what people and what activities we fill our lives with, we stand alone.
Zona and Whabby I had to learn that for many addicts they will not accept help and won't admit they are addicts until they hit rock bottom.
The hardest thing you can do is to let them find that bottom. I told my brother and Dad that I could not be in contact with them at all until they had decided that they would get help. I did not see or talk to my father for 5 years and about the same for my brother.
My Dad finally was arrested for DUI and had jail time and treatment and court ordered AA. My brother lost his house and his job and watched his family start to split (his wife was addicted also).
Dad learned his lesson and my brother and his wife have finally started to get their shit together. I do have to say what both of them have gone through in their lives have been very hard that triggered the addictions but they seem to have decided to try clean and sober.
It was hard to let them find their bottom but in the long run it was the best thing. I spent to many years trying to clean up their messes and covering for them until it drove me into a near breakdown of my own. Not addiction but nerves.
It is all very hard.
Ok I have to get ready for the dentist this morning. Thank goodness just a teeth cleaning!
Lynn D: That does seem to be the case, doesn't it? I wonder why it is that more alcoholics can't recognize the slippery slope and that it IS going to deliver them to... rock bottom! But almost none of them can...
Bear~ ya know....I believe we're never alone...i just think we forget!~
Good Morning Hooters!
Congrats on 1st lynn
Powerful blog bona, and a very thought provoking questions. Could I? Yes, without a doubt.
I grew up with no experience of addiction of any kind. Then I met my future in-laws. OMG is all I can say- When the MIL was in the hospital and answered the drinking questions- she said 'socially'. The nurse asked how much, she said 12. The nurse said a week??? She almost fell off the chair (literally, she lurched forward) when MIL said daily. She has since passed away and FIL is also out of our lives, no idea if dead of alive.
Beer is not addicting. Did you know that? My BIL is a full blown alcoholic whom we have had no contact with in years. Mr. Goldie will not. Tried too many times to help him. Even after he was in jail for 6 months (no booze) the first thing he did when he got out was drink. Then of course his ex-wife died of a drug overdose. Still didn't clean up his act for the kids. Sucks.
Mr. Goldie did his share of youthful drinking escapades, but thankfully he decided on his own that he didn't want to follow that path and have his kids go thru what he did so he does not drink at all.
On that happy note ;) I have to get back to work!!
Have a good day everyone
Good Morning Owls.
Lynn - Congrats on being first.
Good Morning Zona-My-Baby - If you are ever lonely, call me. That's a song isn't it? However it's true, one person that really cares sure can help that lonely feeling.
Good Morning Whabbear - Why did your sister do that? Did she think it was helping? What was the end result of the incident?
Good Morning Goldie - Yes, that is a powerful blog. Your MIL was an excellent example of "being in denial". So many addicts are in denial until it's too late to save them. That is so sad.
Bonacci - When my kids were little in the 60's, drugs were very popular. They were first thought of as "mind enlightening". They supposedly made you more intelligent and more loving. Woodstock of 1969 had "flower children" walking around for 3 days listening to music and feeling the love. Somehow there wasn't violence amongst the 500,000 that were there.
It seemed like the whole drug society blew up at once. Janis Joplin and so many others were dying of overdoses. I was so worried about the world that my three little ones, born in the 60's, were entering. Thankfully by the time they were teenagers everyone was worried and there were anti drug promotions going on in school and in the media. There was still a lot of drugs out there but my kids were well aware of the dangers and thank God never ran with that crowd. I don't know if I could have helped if there was a problem. As Lynn says some can't be helped until they hit rock bottom. How do you watch someone ruin his/her life? I am so thankful that I was never put in that position. Tough love would be a hard thing for me to do and without it are you not enabling them?
Serious blog today Bonacci. I am interested in others' experiences. Sometimes I think the addicts are trying to 'kill their loneliness' but that is just one of several possible reasons for falling into that trap.
I must get breakfast. I will check back later.
Tina - I just noticed that I forgot to say "Good Morning" to you. I don't know how I did that when you posted five in a row. Maybe my eyesight is worse than I thought. I agree that song scares me. I don't think I want to watch it a second time. It was excellent however for the point Bonacci was making in her blog today.
Happy Tuesday Owls.
Bonacci, I have no audio again so I can't listen to the video, but to answer your question, I have and would definitely participate in an intervention again. My Father was an alcoholic, having been weaned from milk to wine in Italy. He started the day with booze in his coffee, which he called 'coffee royale' and ended the day with wine or vodka.
I guess he was what some would call a functioning alcoholic, because he always worked, and I was never aware of how buzzed he was until I finally saw him sober. Thanks to a friend of my mother's who helped us with an intervention, he quit drinking when he was in his 70s. He lived to be 91. My mother also went to Al Anon with this same friend and it helped her understand what he was going through.
Lynn, Congrats on #1 again.
Waving to Tina, Zona, Bear Goldie, Tinka, and all the other Owls. I am on my way out the door for a doctor appointment and then meeting friends for lunch. Hope to BBL.
Good morning!
I've never heard that song... and I've never had to intervene in someone's addiction.
I did have a boyfriend one time who was an alcoholic. I didn't realize it at the time. I caught him getting up early one morning for "orange juice" and saw him drinking and Old English ale. Then started noticing that he snuck around, hid beers, and lied about it all.
We broke up before things got really bad. Later I found out from his sister that he had gotten a dui and had lost his drivers license and his job.
I heard that he had serious liver problems and was found passed out on his driveway.
We had a birthday party here last night, and I have a little more clean up, so I will bbl.
Hope everyone has a nice day today!
You all bring up interesting sides to the addiction issue. First off, Alcohol withdrawal is the only withrwaral that is life threatening. I learned that 2nd had, but I believe.
I see alcholol all the time, but still don't where the line is between social and problem drinking.
My first impulse was to turn my back on on this Brandon. Then I tried to help. Afer 12 rehab stints in 2 years, + the fact he was keeping the wrong company, convinced me I couldn't do anyhing about it.
Another associate, who I genuinely like when he's sober, was was on drugs I'd never heard of before. When he started talking about jumping 6 stories into cardboard boxes (he wanted it on film), we showed up for the "stunt" along with law enforcement who took him into custody. A 5050 I think it's called. He spent 3 mos in lockdown, pleading to get out. Then we moved him to a sober living facility where he was watched closely. He's happy with his life now.
Those of us who lived through the terrors of watching an addict destroy their lives know what I mean. But once in a while, the addict WANTS to turn around. The only other option is deatth.
I myself have addiction demons. I joke about it here on the blog, but caffeing is a powerful drug. I went two days with caffeine or sugar and had a severe headache from the withrawls. However, it is socially acceptible for me to be a ceffeing addict. Why?
The intent of this blog was to open everyone's eyes. Addicts need support. Not just from some 12 step program. They need friends and family to help them. The the video, the beautiful women represent vices; drugs, sex, food. They are powerful mistresses, and the venomous kiss Ville sings about is a metaphor for that first taste. After that, you can't stop because of how good it makes you feel.
LynnD Congrats on first today! I'm glad to hear that your dad and brother are doing better now.
Bonachichi Great blog and I liked the music very much. I found the symbolism in the vid to be very interesting. Perhaps what these people are lonely for is of a more spiritual nature and they get sucked in by the false promise of drugs and alcohol.
Tina I have always thought of myself as agnostic but my ex-fiance has given me some books by C.S. Lewis to read that I find quite interesting so now I am "willing to become willing to become willing" to look at the possibility that you may be right. I still don't believe there has to be any middlemen though. ijs
Bear Maybe one of these days I'll get you to read these books as Mr. Lewis was considered highly intellectual. He studied the Bible in order to debunk it and ended up becoming a believer and the case he makes for it and his reasoning is very interesting.
For those who have listened to the video, welcome. You've now been introduced to Death Metal music.
The video shows people with various addictions. The beautiful women are the secutresses who lure people to herious. Hence, the venomous kiss.
Bonachichi Do you think this vid is a statement against vices that are killing people or is it a glamourization? Will the young people who view it get the symbolism or give it a second thought? There are, of course, religious overtones, too; the pentagram, the cross glowing behind the singer at the end, even the word "venomous" which conjures up the snake (serpent).
Gee, I hope I haven't stopped the conversation. : (
lol J/L~ I actually started to write something.....and thought better of it~ :D I'm off to pick up the football player....sure hope he's learning how to play~ bbl~
I guess I should have thought better of it, too. :(
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Just-Lin - You could never stop the conversation. I for one enjoy all of your comments.
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I am a little dizzy from playing in the Farmyard and trying to round up all my animals into a fenced in area. Thanks Zona for all your help.
I am off to watch NCIS. I will see you all in the morning. Love, Tinka
Lynnd.. Happy 1.. :O)
Tina.. you are pretty.. and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.. its just Eunice who is well, not so pretty..
:O)
LYNN...congrats on 1st! I'm glad your brother and dad are doing better. I think if our loved ones realized how their behavior hurt us, they would get help sooner. But, it is part of the denial process. You're a good sis and daughter. And a good friend.
TINA...ha ha on 2nd!!! j/k!!
GOLDIE...that is sad about your MIL. Mr. GOLDIE is a strong man.
SACBARB...i think that culterally, some are more predispositioned to certain addictions. Alcohol is part of daily living from a young age.
CHI CHI...great blog. It is so sad to see people that you love and have so much to offer get caught up in various addictions. One of the keys to determine the difference between a social drinker and an alcoholic is a social drinker can stop at one or two drinks. An alcoholic can not. Sure they can say they wont drink for a week to prove they aren't...and they can do that. But tell them to have only 2 drinks and they can't.
Bill was an alcoholic and I tried to help him, but he couldn't...or wouldn't...accept it. I secretly prayed that he would get a dui and get the help he needed, but he didn't. I decided he loved his booze more then me, so it was better to end the relationship. Could I have done more? I probably could have. But I was younger, stupid and in love and wanted to love being in love. Oh well. Great blog
Bonacci..
I think with any kind of addiction one must have a addicted personality. It is up to that one to control it. Some smoke, some drink, some do drugs etc, etc. I think with a addiction to drugs, one tries it at a young age, as I did as well, but the addiction to drugs was not to be for me, I could live without it, yet I was a lonely child, living in my own make believe world always trying to be someone else. However another child/person will certainly find drugs addicting as they have found their addiction, and the need for it is to strong and they are to weak to fight that addiction.. So I don't think its loneliness that necessarily pertains to drug addiction. I just think is the need to fulfill the addictive personality that is theirs. And once hooked as in all addiction it is very hard to break. I intervention is certainly in order. I would do whatever it takes to help anyone you has hit bottom. I have been in a couple of interventions with family members. It is hard but necessary.. I never kick anyone when they are down, they are down enough by their own kicks, for me to add another would certainly make no sense..
I am thrilled to hear your intervention worked.. Kudos to you for helping..
Sometime one just needs some help..
Hi Mo!!!!!!
Mo..
Actually I am not sure if you could have done more.. He had to ready as well, and sometimes they are not.. It takes time for them to realize the addiction they have.. I know a few ppl with drinking problems that will tell ya, its not problem to stop, they just don't get it..
I think you did what you could..
J/L...
You could never stop a convo..:O)
J/L..
Meant to include this..
You should always say how you feel, good, bad or indifferent, it just the way the world goes round.. :O)
I did not watch the whole vid, sorry so I did not see the props that were used.. So I have to believe he is def making a statement..
No wonder I did not watch the entire vid its "Death Metal Music" I prefer the mardi gras music I but in my vid.. LOL
Lynn..
I believe that as well our society is surly addicted.. to so very many things..
CAROL...hi! Thanks. I think I have an addictive personality...proof being in my smoking and eating. I recognized that and stayed away from addictive substances. I do drink socially but that is very rare. I don't really enjoy it and I would rather remember the fun and not wonder what I did or didn't do! I did try marijuana in college and I got so sick that I swore on my father's grave that I would never do drugs again and I haven't. And I never missed it. I also was given narcotics for pain and I didn't take them after 2 or 3 pills. I too have been very lonely at times in my life but I luckily never turned to drugs or alcohol to keep me company or to fill a void.
Zona and Whabby..
You said..
"You pose an interesting question. Do people really do drugs... hard drugs... to combat loneliness? Perhaps! I agree with Zona... loneliness is there for all of us, almost omnipresent. At the end of the day (and the end of our lives), no matter what people and what activities we fill our lives with, we stand alone."
I could not have said it better myself.. Fantastic words..
Mo..
Me too... My addictions.. food and cigs.. it overwhelms me..
I am working my butt off at the gym, but my food intake has not change, so I have not lost any weight..
Food constantly calls my name..
CAROL...it calls me, too! I have been trying to avoid snacking at night. I get sick when I look in the mirror these days!
Mo..
I too feel lucky that drugs where not my choice.. My childhood friend was not so lucky and continues using today. I have no contact with her, but I hear thru others..
at least you are not gaining any weight;)
OMG.. Mo.. Me too.. I just ate half of bag of corn nuts.. I love those suckers.. so crunchy..
Yum!
OMG OMG OMG...I got a 69!!!!!!
SHIRLEY...mark that down with a permanent marker!!
Well Mo.. that is to be seen, I don't weigh myself, so I would not know.. My clothes sill fit, so that is a good thing.. otherwise I would be running around nekked with Iteach!!!
LOL
Mo..
We were being so chatty we forgot to the numbers. Oh my you did get 69..
You still got it, you piggy you!!!!
CAROL...I snack at work all fricking day! I have a vending machine almost next to my desk! I try to take in better snacks...pretzels, cereal, grapes or carrots to stay away from the machine. But, today I did submit to it and bought a Twix bar!Chocolate spoke much louder then the pretzels!
Goldie..
I client of my, as the same issue with his brother, he tried everything to help, but to no avail.. My client has no contact with his brother whatsoever, and is fine with his choice.. His brother is actually in jail and will be there for the next few years..
Mo..
You should have had two twix bars.. LOL
Sacbarb..
Yes, they are many functioning alcoholic's, including my cousin that I was at dinner with on Saturday nite..
I am so glad you father received help..
oops.. Saturday nite should be Sunday nite..
I have a cousin (what a surprise!) that had a cocaine problem. He hid it very well. He never told his then fiance that he had actually been arrested and plead a deal. When they got married, she still had no idea...nor did we. She wanted to go to the Bahamas for their honeymoon and he talked her into Disney...he was on probation and couldn't leave the country. No one had any idea. About 2 months after they got married, he was arrested again and sentanced to jail. He could cut his jail time if he went into a judicial drug program. Thank god he did. He has been clean now a couple of years. She stuck it out, but they really had to start over because she felt she had no idea who she married. He looks healthy now and they are happy together. I don't mince words with him and we talk about it. It was funny because before his arrests we noticed he looked very thin, but he always was thin. One of the little 7 year old cousins called him out...told him looked sick like a drug addict! Outta the mouths of babes!
Mo..
Glad he got help and is clean.. I happy ending..
Mo you said " I get sick when I look in the mirror these days!"
Well of course you do cause the image looking back is bacon!! DUH!!!
SHIRLEY...where the hell did you come from??!!!!!
How goes it?
Oh that I should be happy cause I love bacon.. LOL
Mo def look at yourself more often in the mirror.. I want to see bacon!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mmmmmm, bacon. Looks yummy on the plate...not so much on the thighs, ass, stomach and various chins!!!
I believe I came from my mother, but it could have been a very large test tube.
Now I am hungry. A BLT sure sounds good about now!!
Shirley..
LOL!!!!
Carol how are you going to see bacon if Mo looks in her mirror?
SHIRLEY...LMBO!!! You are a hoot! I have missed bantering with you!
Mo..
That is great..it just means more of it.. Yummmmmmmmmm
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Shirley..
She will take a pic.. and send to me.. easy as pie..
Now I want bacon..
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oh no you don't shirley
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mirror mirror on the wall, who's the baconyist of them all?
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Oh yes I did!
Shirley Ha! Congrats!
Oh yes you did.. Shirley write that down you got it...
And all the while as we are marching, Mo is looking at herself in the mirror, no wonder she is hungry...
SHIRLEY...you stomped on CAROL!! You better mark that down, too!
CAROL...I will get a wide angle lens and send ya a pic!
Just Lin welcome to the circus!! Let me guess, you want bacon now too right?
J/L..
Hi!!
Shirley...
Take a bow..
JUST LIN...HI! Welcome to the pork fest!
MO...
LMAO!!!!!!
J/L...
We have bacon flavored popcorn, can't have a circus without popcorn!!!!
I love bacon!!!!
I like my bacon crispy.
and the smell of bacon.. yum..
J/L..
It seems Shirley stomped on you as well..
Carol I'm a bit top heavy, so if I bow I might fall over and I ain't one of those "weebles wobble but they don't fall down". ijs!
bacon, tomato and cheese...grilled to perfection
blt with avocado
bacon, egg and cheese burrito
bacon with bacon sandwich
I'm droooooooooling!
Tomorrow..
Wednesdays with Whabby, does everyone have their #2 ready????
omg....i want some bacon!!!~
Shirley..
LMAO.. you are cracking me up!
I surly think Bill had his way with you.. LOL
bacon, scrambled eggs, and toast~
Tina..
We are cooking Mo.. you want the right leg or the left????
CAROL...I have my #2 and my dunce cap ready and waiting!
TINA...wants to be makin bacon!
Hi Tina! How are you tonight? You look very pretty.
Omg.. I want a grilled cheese with
bacon to.. :(
The juiciest bacon is off my ass...ijs!
HA.. HA.. dunce cap.. LOL..
I can't breath..
So do I Carol, but no tomato.
Carol~ I want Mo's ass~
Shirley~ I'm loverly this evening~ tyfa~
Mo~ i want to eat you~
Oh no.. I don't want the ass.. pu..
I want the leg.. :O)
Mo that's ok as long as you wiped it first.
Tina..
No you can't eat mo.. you don't like pork....
Shirley..
EWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!
Carol~ ARE YOU A CRACKWHORE?! I love pork! And I'm a porker~
SHIRLEY...damn, I knew I forgot to do something
Oh crap.. I was just trying not to share..
Mo....
EWWWWWWWWW!!!!!
How the heck did bacon turn into shit????
TINA...bite me first, ok? LOL!
Ladies it's been fun but it's 1:00 here and I need my beauty sleep, which by the way is highly overrated cause it don't work for me. ijs. Good night! Leave enough of Mo so she can go to work tomorrow!
Mo....
nooooooo I wanted to bite you first, why does she get to go first..
laughing my bacon fat ass off!!
i think if you look up pork butt my picture is there!
Shirley..
Sleep well.. and I totally think you wake up pretty everyday.. Bill told me..
:O)
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CAROL...cuz she's older then you!!
SHIRLEY...nighters! And you're beautiful just the way u r
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Mo..
Double crap u r right, she gets to go first.. :O)
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OMG.. Shirley is marching to bed..
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Maybe she is sleepmarching???
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Or maybe not!
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HA HA HA HA HA..
I got 169..
YAY..
CAROL...guess you gave it back to SHIRLEY!!
ME ME ME ME ME ...
I GOT IT..
HA HA HA HA..
and I was not even trying..
Shirley.. write that down..
Damn you Carol!!! Good night for real!
Turtle flew in.. but she was to late, Turtle's are slow ya know.
Mo.. I sure did.. I am doing the Happy Dance.. (all myself and I really look stupid)..
:O)
Good nite for real Shirley...
KGIRL...ummmm, you were a little slow there, kinda like a turtle!!
I was slow, too. Hard to march when people are munching on your ass, legs and biting you!!
sorry mo.. I like to eat while I am marching..
Ok.. time for bed for me..
Sleep is near..
Mo.. had fun, thanks, so good to laugh.. :O)
Shirley.. thanks for the laugh as well..
Tina.. u get to go first so bite away..
J/L.. seems like you have lots of material for the QOTD..
Turtle.. good try!
Nite all..
CAROL...nighters! Thank you, too for the laughs!
If i don't get to bed soon I really will end up in the kitchen!!
Hi everyone! I am sorry I have been mia. I have kept up on the blogs. I have had so much to do since being gone for almost 2 wks! My sleeping patterns are all screwed up!
Lynnd Congrats on first today!
Bonacci, a very interesting topic. I think you got a lot of varied, honest responses. I personally don't have an addictive personality ('cept food). My sil almost died a few years ago from vodka. She was very sneaky. She put it in her morning coffee and anything else she could find. I always wondered why she always seemed to have it in her purse where ever we went, like the movies,games, family get-togethers etc. I thought she just wanted to party a little. I wasn't raised around alcohol or smoking so I didn't know the signs. She finally got so bad that her children held an intervention. In 4 yrs she has only slipped once. Today she is doing great. Mr Mary is a Miller lite drinker. He never drinks during the day, but once 7pm arrives he drinks his Miller Lite until he goes to bed, that's about 5 hrs of drinking every 15 minutes. I really don't know how his body takes it! He has done this everyday since the day I met him about 35 yrs ago. He is never mean, just dumb looking,farting, & snoring lol! I know it will all catch up with him some day.
I have 2 beers and I am done! Now wine, I can drink about 3 glasses.
I think I just wrote a novel!
Justlin, I love Eric Clapton! His "Tears in Heaven" tore me right up!
Two of my favorite singers are, Dave Loggons and his "Please Come to Boston", and Harry Chap in's "Cats in the Cradle"
Tina, I love watching Gene Simmons. I was surprised to see what a great and fun Father he was. He has so much energy! I do get this urge to dunk his hair in a pail of water and "smooth him out" lol!!
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Hi Mary - I think I stepped on you. Sorry.
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I was in bed but I got up to harvest my grapes and plant some strawberries.
Tina - I tried to clean up your leaves but I clicked on them and nothing happened. I guess I am still new at this.
Good Night Everyone. Sleep tight. Love, Tinka
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Thanks, Carol, for your kind words about my words!
J/L and Tina: OK, here goes! Batten the late-night hatches!
First, J/L: Two facts that might surprise you:
1. By far my favorite children's stories were The Chronicles of Narnia.
2. Back in the 90's, as soon as it came out, I raced to see a movie, all by myself, because I knew it was going to pack a personal, heartfelt, emotional wallop. And it did.
The movie? Shadowlands. Why? Because the life C.S. Lewis led, the times in which he existed, and particularly his late-in-life romance with Joy Gresham, have all fascinated and haunted me from the time I found out about them.
Why the reference to "haunting"? Because Jack Lewis was such an amazing Christian. The truth is, I would love to be a firm believer in Christianity. It's a great religion, as religions go, at least in my humble opinion. The story it tells is one that offers so much comfort and hope.
And yet... I can't be. The orthodox story of Christianity, particularly those aspects that involve assertions of a personally accessible God, don't jive with anything I know about the universe and my place in it. So, not without considerable sadness, and even quite a bit of regret, I am what I am: a relaxed atheist, who just tinkers on the brink of being barely agnostic, and will in all liklihood be one until the end of my days!
Why the slight bit of uncertainty? Simply, I don't have "proof" that the true nature of the Universe doesn't imbue me, and all humans, with an importance and a purpose and a context that I see no evidence for, so something like a Christian model of reality is within the realm of possibility.
Although, I have very firm opinions of what that reality is not, and one of them is related to the middlemen you talked about. I don't believe that, should it exist, fulfilling my destiny in the Christian reality is in any way conditional on my following any particular religions tradition - because that would establish the creator as a ridiculously human entity (you either follow me and worship me in a very particular way, or I won't let you into heaven. Nyah, nyah)!
But having said all that, Tina, guess what? If the creator is somehow always with us during this life, then believe it or not, I take some comfort in that. Why? Because then I, too, won't cease to exist at death, but will instead be spending the majority of Time (right after I die to who knows when) in some form that has closer access to that God.
Which is just a long-winded way of saying that I think I would go to heaven too.
Why? It's the logic that C.S. Lewis used in the final Narnia book, The Last Battle, to explain why the proud young Calormen prince was allowed to join the good Narnians (and all the sons of Adam and daughters of Eve except Susan) in Narnia heaven (further up and further in). The prince worshipped Tash, but committed nothing but good and honorable deeds in His name. Every time he committed an honorable act, even though it was done in Tash's name, it was "co-opted" by Aslan.
I kind of think, arrogantly perhaps, that even though I don't worship anything, if I basically do right by others, and live what is more or less a "Christian" life, then Aslan - I mean Jesus - will embrace me just as he did the young Calormen prince.
Very orthodox followers of religions disagree vehemently with this, of course. They think that I have to embrace Mormonism, or Catholicism, or Judaism, or Islam, or Anglicisim, or become a Jehovah's Witness, in order to gain everlasting life and be given the keys to the kingdom of Heaven.
We shall see.
200
Bear - You stepped on me at 200 with a long post. Boy it nearly crushed me to death. I will go back and read it.
wow...
they are announcing that Sen. Edward Kennedy died tonight..
that is really sad..
that family sure has been thru alot!!!
waving howdy to all..
MO - you have my craving bacon!!!
I hope everyone has an excellent Thursday!!
:-)
Bear My friend gave me 3 books by C.S. Lewis that explain the thought process that turned him from an atheist to a Christian. I am only 1/4 of the way through the first one I am reading, "Mere Christianity", but I think you would find it very, very interesting. It also may not be a coincidence that C.S. Lewis has played a role in your life.
Ms. Tinka You sure are up late!
MEK Yes, I saw that on the news, too.
J/L~ I think I want to send Bear those books.....he's right there on the brink....he just needs a push~ :)~
Bear~ When I was young....grade school age, I had this silly notion that only Catholics went to Heaven. I didn't learn it in school or at home.....but I got it from somewhere. Two doors down, lived a husband, wife, daughter, and two other kids from her previous marriage. It was the first time I "saw" a blended family. I felt bad for the two older kids. They were both really nice and I saw the youngest being spoiled rotten. I, in my ignorance, asked the older girl where she went to church. They didn't go to church. THAT'S when I knew that what I thought was all wrong. Here you had these two great kids who didn't go to church through no fault of their own. And usually, when kids who don't go to church grow up, they become adults who don't go to church and it's really hard for them to find any religion at all with absolutely no background. So I'm a firm believer that good people go to Heaven. ....i think i'm rambling.....gotta go to bed....but let me know if you need a little nudge over into agnostic-ville~ :D
Tina I definitely think he should read these books, too. I think he would appreciate the intellectual reasoning. It's quite fascinating, really.
Sweet dreams, HOoters!
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