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Wednesday, September 23, 2009

Creating Time and Creating Space #7

by Whabby


All right, owls. Time’s a wasting (LOL), and we have very important business today. Last week, you and naked George (who, by popular demand, is now not only naked but erect as well) decided to measure the time for the light flash to travel up and down Shirley’s shaft while Shirley was traveling 150,000 kilometers per second (half the speed of light). This situation is captured in the illustration on the left side of the figure below. According to our calculations, from your stationary point of view on the ground, Shirley’s movement creates a Line B that’s 150,000 kilometers long. This forces the light pulse to have to climb up and down the sloping sides of the two adjoining right-angle triangles in the figure. From Pythagoras, the 150,000 kilometer Line B added about 36,000 extra kilometers to Line A, compared to the journey taken by the light pulse from the perspective of naked, erect George. Adding the same amount to Line A on the way back down (the hypotenuse of the mirror-image triangle), and 72,000 odd kilometers of extra distance would be added.

At the speed light travels, that extra distance should have added about 0.22 extra seconds to your base measurement of two seconds. Instead, though, your average measurement was 2.32 seconds, about a tenth of a second more than, at first glance, it should be.


Not a big deal, you say? Don’t count on it! To understand the significance of this seemingly tiny discrepancy, I need to pose a straightforward question to you. During the extra 0.22 seconds that the light pulse was taking to cover the extra 72,000 odd kilometers along the two diagonals (36,000 extra kilometers along each Line A), what was Shirley doing? Answer: She was continuing to move away at the same 150,000 kilometers per second! But, wouldn’t this constant movement stretch Line B, forcing it into getting longer? Indeed it would! Specifically, in the 0.118 seconds it takes the light pulse to cover the extra 36,000 kilometers along one diagonal (one Line A), Shirley moves about 17,000 kilometers further away. This stretches Line B from 150,000 kilometers, the length it is on the left side of the figure above, to 167,000 kilometers, the length it is on the right side of the figure. Of course, Shirley is moving at the same speed while the light flash is going up to the ceiling as she is when the flash is going down, so Line B stretches by the same amount on both of the mirror-image triangles.



From Pythagoras’ theorem, any time you add length to Line B, you’re adding length to Line A. Doing the math (I’ll spare you the actual numbers this time), lengthening Line B by 17,000 kilometers adds roughly 8000 kilometers to Line A; this is the source of the number 8 at top of Line A on the “uphill” triangle. But, hold on a minute! Isn’t your version of the light pulse going to have to take even more time to cover that additional 8000 kilometers? Sure. Since light travels so fast, its not much time, about 0.028 seconds to be precise (the number above the 8 in the figure). Still, even that little sliver of additional time is enough for Shirley to move an extra 4,000 kilometers to your right, which is of course also added directly to the length of Line B. I haven’t shown this in the figure, but 4000 extra kilometers along Line B lengthens the all-important Line A by a little under 2000 kilometers, which takes the light pulse an additional 0.0066 seconds to cover, which allows Shirley to move even a little further away… And so on.


See the pattern? Each additional increment in travel time for your light pulse creates an additional “window of opportunity” for Shirley to move even further away, and further lengthen Line B. From the Pythagoras Theorem, any increase in Line B has to donate additional length to Line A, which, in turn, takes additional time for the light pulse to cover. The bottom line: your spacecraft is now traveling fast enough to set up repeated cycles of space/time creation!


Of course, as we’ve also seen, these cycles of time/space creation shrink very rapidly. Within only about 18 of them (each one smaller than the last), the amount of additional distance along Line A is driven to virtually zero, choking off the opportunity for Shirley to move any further away before the light pulse reaches your fellow experimentalist, naked erect George. The whole space/time creation thing comes to a screeching halt and, even from your perspective, the light pulse reaches its destination, gets reflected by Shirley’s floor back to your eyes, and you hit your stopwatch.


Adding up all the additions to the length of Line B donated by Shirley’s movement from the point of departure (which corresponds to the time when she passed directly over you, and you and George both started your stopwatches), we get a final length of about 173,000 kilometers for Line B, which adds a total of about 46,000 kilometers to Line A. Multiplying 46,000 kilometers by two (to take into account the same additional distance added onto the light pulse’s journey after it was reflected off Shirley’s mirrored ceiling) we get a total increase in the distance your version of the light pulse has to travel, compared to George’s version, of 92,000 kilometers.


How much extra time does it take light to cover that much extra distance? You guessed it… approximately 0.32 extra seconds (actually, it’s .306666 seconds; I’m rounding to keep things straightforward).

Exactly the amount of additional time you measured on your stopwatch, compared to the two seconds measured by the steady, unfailing, naked, erect George!


We’re really starting to get somewhere, now, owls! The notion that, from your frame of reference, time and space mutually construct each other over successive cycles is pretty amazing. And make no mistake: these cycles of mutual creation are real. Suppose there was an odometer onboard Shirley that recorded the distance she covered from the point she passed over top of you to the point when the light pulse returned to the floor, two seconds later (as measured by George onboard). Since Shirley is traveling 150,000 kilometers per second, the odometer would read exactly 300,000 kilometers. In your frame of reference, though, when the light pulse hits the floor, Shirley has traveled almost 50,000 kilometers further. That’s a lot of extra distance out into space!


When you think about this, it raises all sorts of puzzles. To avoid thinking about them, you might be forgiven for saying to me: “What’s a few tens of thousands of kilometers, and a couple of extra tenths of a second, among friends”? True, there’s still not a dramatic discrepancy between your time measurements and those of George. Does that mean time dilation’s not that interesting, after all? Hold on, owls! Next week, we’re going to pull out all the stops, and crank up Shirley’s speed all the way to 299,999 kilometers per second, just one kilometer less than the speed of light itself.


This is going to do nothing to George’s measurements, of course (I mean his measurements of time, not his erection). It’ll be the same old boring two seconds for him. But. Anybody care to speculate on what time you’re going to record on your stopwatch?




77 comments:

Maureen said...

1

Maureen said...

must travel faster then george and shirley to get to work on time.
bbl

DeeDee said...

lol at Maureen....good morning......would I be 2 or 3?

Zona said...

Good Morning!

Congrats on FIRST MO!

Hi DEEDEE!

HAPPY 20th ANNIVERSARY to JODI & MR. JODI!!

Thinking cap on BEAR..off to read the blog....

Lynn D said...

Morning Glories!

Yay Mo got first!!!!

Whabby I am guessing .64 seconds, doubling the time. I used simple math but am just guessing again. Would this then send us into a black hole? Ummmm won't comment on that or would it be a worm hole?

Morning DeeDee!

Zona said...

BEAR: Oh boy..I am so distracted by George and Shirley..more so this week than last week!! I'm gonna make a wild guess though..if you all but double the speed that Shirley is travelling..would that also double the time on the stopwatch? I almost want to say it'll cut the time in half..but I don't think that's right. I'm trying to get this BEAR, but it's like the part of my brain that understands math and science is drunk or something. I won't give up though! :)

Lynn D said...

ooops missed Zona! Morning Glory!

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY JODI AND MISTER JODY!

I have to check my farms and the news and then fly out of here. I have food bank today and must leave the house. This means personal hygiene is a must.

goldie said...

Good Morning Hooters!

Mo!! Congrats on 1st- what did you do, trip tina~?

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY Mr. & Mrs. JODI!!!

Be back later to see George and Shirley in fully erected mode!

night.owls.sb said...

Morning to all!!!!

:O)

JodiHO! Happy Anniversary!!!!

Mo! Happy One!!!!

Zona! I am distracted as well, but in a good way!!!!

Goldie! That is certainly the best way! Fully Erect!!!

(oops sorry much to early for porn)

I am all about exclamation points today, can u tell!!!!

night.owls.sb said...

Whabby..

I am guessing the same double the time!

night.owls.sb said...

Tina..

What is your guess?

night.owls.sb said...

Has anyone heard from Bonacci???

night.owls.sb said...

or Sacbarb?

night.owls.sb said...

Loved, Loved DWTS.. so much fun, so entertaining..

Loved Kelly Osbourne, I think she did a terrific job.. I actually had a tear in my eye when they panned to her parents, they looked so proud

And what is up with Macy Gray, no personality, my goodness, she is so stiff, she actually looks uncomfortable just being around ppl..

Oh and Mya, how great is she..

Did Kathy Ireland have a plastic surgery on her face, she looks so different..

night.owls.sb said...

DWTS 2nite tribute to Patrick Swayze.. (did I spell that right)

Looking forward to it..

night.owls.sb said...

ok.. off to work..

:O)

Mary/MI said...

Making a quick fly-by. I have a meeting in Lansing at 1:00. I need to get ready. I assume parking by the State Capitol will be tricky!
Whabbear. It all makes sense when I read it (after 10 times), but cannot grasp any kind of answer. Am I over thinking it, or is this a never ending equation.

Waving at MO.DeeDee,Zona,LynnD,Goldie, & Carol~~~

Congrats on the early worm MO!!

Tina~in_ut said...

I have only one question, Bear~ Were you drinking heavily when you wrote this one? ija~ :)~

goldie said...

Popcorn?? Did I hear Popcorn????? I'm in!!

whabbear said...

Tina: LOL! Is it coming across as a little... sloppy?

Meanwhile, excellent thinking, Zona, Lynn D, and Carol! You did notice a critical point, which is that Shirley will be traveling almost twice as fast as she was this week.

I actually start off next week's blog with the hypothesis that, because of that, the amount of extra time you measure will be about double what it is right now. So kudos to you guys for being very J/L'ish in correctly anticipating part of the content of next week!

But: Guess what? That's not the right answer. In fact, it's off by a country mile. And the reasons why it's so far off are... as Spock would say... fascinating!

BTW, those reasons don't include anything weird or exotic like black holes, wormholes, etc. Instead, they follow directly from the simple geometry of the same right-angle triangle we've been dealing with all along.

I can't help myself. Here's a hint. The important thing about the 299,999 kilometers per second speed is not really that it is almost twice as fast as 150,000 kps. The important thing is that 299,999 kps is so very close to 300,000 kps, the speed of light itself.

That, combined with the Pythagoras theorem and the geometry of right-angled triangles, holds the key to next week!

Just_Lin said...

Bear If Shirley is traveling at nearly the speed of light, wouldn't we be catching up to the light and be back to the 2 second time on our stopwatch? That's how I'm imagining it, anyway, when I picture the scenario in my head. I probably need more coffee.

In my head I'm singing, "Let's do the time warp again". LOL

Just_Lin said...

Bear If I just use the Pythagoras Therem, I get 2.83 sec.

Just_Lin said...

MO Congrats on first!

LynnD LOL @ black hole.

Carol With Bear's blogs, it's never too early for porn...ijs.

whabbear said...

J/L: Yes, if Shirley changed her direction of motion and was coming back, thus reducing Line B rather than lengthening it.

But she's not. Regardless of whether she's travels 1 kilometer per second, or 150,000 kps, or 299,999 kps, it's always in the same direction.

Remember, you're lying on the ground, looking up, with your left and right arms outstretched. When Shirley passes over you, she's heading straight out the line formed by your outstretched right arm. And that's Line B in the right-angle triangle.

Next week, she'll just be going down that line more quickly than this week.

Tinkatia said...

Good Morning everyone. I just got back from the doctor's office and I am going down for a nap. Bear, I promise I will carefully read your blog when I wake up. Whether I will understand it will be another story. Thanks for enlightening us.

Just_Lin said...

Bear Did you see my comment at 1:32? I think my stopwatch will read 2.83 sec.

Jodi said...

Sorry WHABBY.....just not getting it!!!

MOHO - Congrats on first!!!

Thank you to ZONA, LYNN D, GOLDIE, and CAROL for the lovely Anniversary Wishes!!

CAROL - Kelly Osborne was a complete surprise last night, and I, too had a tear in my eye watching her parent's reaction to her dance. Can't wait to see the results show tonight!!

whabbear said...

J/L: Congrats! My calculation is identical to yours!

However, remember, we're just basing our calculations on a triangle with a Line B that's 299,999 kilometers long. That creates a Line A that's 424,264 kilometers in length, or 124,264 kilometers longer than the distance the light pulse covers in 1 second for George.

Covering 124,264 extra kilometers will take our version of the light pulse 0.414 extra seconds.

What mischief does Shirley get into during that time?

Dianne/Denver said...

Hi. Just popping in and out as I have been gone most of the day and need to get going again but I wanted to give me two cents on the Chicago BBQ. I think the last day of April and first day or two of May would work perfect and I woould be interested in going. I think you get into Mothers Day the next week and then graduations, Memorial Day, etc. It shouldn't be too hot yet either--so sign me up!!

Lynn D said...

Afternoon Owls!

I just watched Mackenzie Phillips on Oprah and am just teary eyed. I believe her story and really think she was molested before she stated. Just my impression. Molestation aside the fact that her father was giving her drugs at the age of 11 and taught her how to shoot up is beyond criminal in my book. Shame on the other adults in her life that never as it seems, did anything. They are just as criminal as her father.

Tinkatia said...

Bear - I am sorry. I guess missing the last two weeks didn't help any but I am completely lost. I will have to leave it to Just-Lin and a few others. You are sure one smart cookie.

Happy Anniversary to Jodi and Mr. Jodi

I will be back tomorrow. Have a great night.

Tinkatia said...

35

whabbear said...

Tink: No problem! Just three more and we're done (everyone heaves sigh of relief)!

Tinkatia said...

Bear- I think it was just great of you to write them. I just wish I were able to answer your questions.

Just_Lin said...

Joid I missed your post! Wishing you and Mr. Jodi a very Happy Anniversary!!!

Just_Lin said...

Bear On board Shirley, George is thinking everything is "normal", isn't he? His stopwatch still reads 2 sec. From my persepective though, it appears that time has slowed down on board Shirley, since I believe 2.83 seconds have gone by. It's as if we have two different realities.

night.owls.sb said...

Ok.. the two ppl that left DWTS I am fine with..

can't wait for next week..

night.owls.sb said...

Lynn..

I did not see it, but read some of it on the internet.. and I believe her as well..

Sad~

night.owls.sb said...

Where the heck is everyone...

Hellooooooooooooo

night.owls.sb said...

Tisme... :O)

My e-mail is cpgem88@gmail.com

Please contact me..

Thanks!

night.owls.sb said...

Mo..

Sign Di up!

:O)

night.owls.sb said...

J/L..

HA! :O)

night.owls.sb said...

JodiHO!

I loved her to.. can't wait to see more of her..

night.owls.sb said...

Whabby..

Well I was close a country mile is not long at all.. ;O) (is it?)

night.owls.sb said...

Oh yes.. tinka thanks for the reminder..


Happy Anniversary Mr and Mrs JodiHO!

iteach said...

Hello Everyone!!

whabbear said...

OMG, J/L! Exactly! And you hit right at a key point that I didn't mention in the blog: In your frame of reference, an event that takes two seconds takes two seconds. Like a few blogs back when you were doing the time measurement right underneath Shirley, and George and Shirley wasn't moving. Then, both you and George measured the light flash as taking the same two seconds to travel up and down.

Now, you're stationary in that same location, but Shirley is moving compared to you at a very high speed. Onboard, though, the event takes the same amount of time. For George, "reality" is exactly the same as it was when he was stationary above you.

On the ground, despite the fact that George is moving, your reality is the same, too. If you independently measured the time it took light to cover 600,000 kilometers of space, launched from somewhere near you on the Earth, it would take two seconds. Nothing's changed for you either.

It's just when you try to "eavesdrop" on George's reality that you see a difference. Things in George's world are starting to take more time to happen, from your perspective, than they are for George, or they would for you if they took place in your world.

A lot of people, when they hear the word "relativity", think that it means that time actually passes at different rates in different frames of reference, so the people inside one frame would experience reality very differently than people in another frame. But, no.

Isn't this just eerie? I totally love this stuff!

Tinkatia said...

50

Tinkatia said...

Wow I got 50 and wasn't even trying. I was just catching up on comments. I will get back now to reading them.

Maureen said...

DI is signed up! ;)

HODI...Hope you had a wonderful Anniversary!

LYNN...I read that she was in a consentual(sp?) sexual "relationship" with her father. SICKENING

Crap, I totally forgot about DWTS. Would someone PLEASE email me the two that got the dancing shoe in the ass!! I hope beyond hope one of them was Macie Gray (not exactly one of Ohio's favorite!)

iteach said...

Whabby I just totally love listening to you talk about it!

Seriously!

iteach said...

Hi Tink and Mo!!

Maureen said...

TINKA...how are you feeling tonight?

JENNIFER...Hi! Happy Birthday to your mom!!! And I hope Carolyn feels better soon

East Bay J said...

Hi hooters!

Happy anniversary to Mr. and Mrs. Jodi! Hope you are having a fun, sexy evening!! :)

Congrats on 1st today MO!

I am all for a meet and greet! I think it would be sooo fun! I hope I can go.

Bear I am sooo tired from a crazy busy day at work, I can't even comprehend today's blog.

I know we talked about it at the bbq, this kind of stuff is not my thing. I do appreciate your vast knowledge and read every blog you write. I am just not able to fully (or even partly) understand the math/physics stuff.

Naked, erect George is more up my alley! (wherever that may be!!)

We have enjoyed DWTS the past 2 nights and look forward to see who goes home tonight.

I hardly recognized Kathy Ireland, she does not look the same.

Kelly Obsbone really AMAZED me, who knew she could be so graceful?

I will guess that Macy goes, and not sure about what male it might be.

Today is Poe's "birdday"!! :)

East Bay J said...

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East Bay J said...

69

East Bay J said...

wow I got 69! yipee!

Maureen said...

EBJ...that was some march! Happy Birdday to Poe.
Should I mark you down, too?

East Bay J said...

Mo, you can mark me down but put a ? By my name for now!

whabbear said...

EBJ: He can't be up your alley. He's up Shirley's alley.

He can't be both... can he?

Tina~in_ut said...

Jodi~ what did you get for your anniversary? Better yet, what did you give? :)~

Bear~ I too love to listen to you talk about this.....you get so excited....i get like that when I new scrapbook product comes on the market~ :D

Just_Lin said...

EBJ Congrats on 69!

George can go up my alley anyday. LOL

Happy Birdday to Poe!

whabbear said...

Tina: :)

Happy Birthday, Poe the Parrot!

sacBarb said...

I am done harvesting, plowing and planting for the day and I am tired. I hope you all had a good day.

Bear, I read your blog, but my tiny brain just can't process it tonight. Sorry. But thanks for trying to educate me.

Sweet dreams everyone.

Just_Lin said...

Sweet dreams, SacBarb! I was wondering where you were. I should have known you were in the fields.

Maureen said...

SACBARB...so nice to see you! Missed you.