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Wednesday, September 16, 2009

Time for some Time Dilation? #6

by Whabby

At the end of last week’s installment, you and naked George had agreed to perform the time measurement experiment again, but this time with Shirley moving smartly along at half the speed of light, or 150,000 kilometers per second. After your customary hundred or so repetitions of the experiment, George is starting to climb the walls with boredom, as he keeps measuring the same old two seconds for the light pulse to go up and down Shirley’s shaft. Your watch, though, is measuring something distinctly different: a shade over 2.3 seconds.


Say what? This difference can’t be blamed on naked George. He’s been well trained to switch the searchlight on and off at the exact point he and Shirley are passing over top of you. Thus, you have supreme confidence that you and he are starting your stopwatches at exactly the same time. Where is this extra 0.3 seconds and change coming from?

The figure to the left shows where. In the second it takes the light flash to travel up to the ceiling, Shirley travels exactly 150,000 kilometers along the line to your right, so Line B reaches 150,000 kilometers in length. In George’s frame of reference, the pulse only has to go up and down the equivalent of Line C. For you, it has to climb up and down Line A, the diagonal side of the two right-angle triangles. Looking at the shape of the triangles, it is clear that your “version” of the light pulse has to cover more distance than George’s version.

How much more? Let’s do the standard pythagorian calculation and find out. Remember, to get the length of line A, you multiply the length of Line B by itself (square it), and the length of Line C by itself, add the two together, and get the square root of that summed value. 150,000 (Line B) squared equals 22 billion, five hundred million kilometers (see what happens when you square an already huge number?). We already know that Line C squared equals 90 billion kilometers. Adding these two big values together gives us exactly 922 billion, five hundred million. The square root of that number is just slightly under 336,000 kilometers. Both Line A going up and Line A going down are close to 336,000 kilometers long, for a total distance of almost 672,000 kilometers.

Whoa, owls! That number is roughly 72,000 kilometers longer than the distance the light flash has to travel from George’s perspective! Clearly, your light pulse is going to take more time to cover that extra distance. How much? Easy. Light travels at 300,000 kilometers per second, so covering an additional 72,000 or so kilometers will take your pulse about 0.236 seconds of additional time.

Let’s take stock here. Two different observers, you on the ground and naked George in Shirley, are measuring the identical event and finding that it takes different amounts of time to complete! The conclusion is irrefutable. When you measure the length of an event that occurs in the frame of reference of a spaceship (or anything else) that’s moving very fast with respect to you, the event take more time than it does when the event is measured from within the moving frame of reference itself (in this case, measured from “the moving frame of reference itself” means performing the measurement from onboard Shirley, the way naked George is doing).

Mathematically, it’s the increasing length of side “B”, brought about by Shirley’s motion, that is to blame. The longer Line B is, the longer Line A is, and the more distance the light pulse has to cover from your stationary perspective.

But, there’s actually a slight problem with this analysis. Recall that the average of the values you measured from your stopwatch was actually a little over 2.3 seconds, almost a tenth of a second longer than the 2.236 seconds you should have been measuring if the light pulse was traveling “only” 72,000 extra kilometers. You’re understandably quite eager to sweep this discrepancy under the rug, attributing it to just measurement error perhaps, since it’s so small. But I can tell you now, owls, this difference is not to be trifled with. In fact, as we’ll discover in next Wednesday’s blog, it holds within it the best part of the time dilation phenomenon!

Would you care to speculate in today’s comment section about where the discrepancy is coming from, and why it is so important? Or just wait for next week?

Here’s a hint: During the 0.236 seconds that it takes the light pulse to cover that extra 72,000 kilometers, what is Shirley doing?

84 comments:

Tina~in_ut said...

1~

Tina~in_ut said...

go ahead.....i dare you! Call that cheaqting!~

Tina~in_ut said...

damn....i'm still pretty~

Tina~in_ut said...

whabby~ I'll have to read later!~

Tina~in_ut said...

....and maybe by next week i'll get it!~ :D

Lynn D said...

Morning Glories!

I see the cheaqter got first! Congrats Tina!

Whabby Shirley is moving (very fast I might add) whew those hips are getting a work out!

No I won't sweep the difference under the rug. Men would do that but exact measurement is very important to women! Men not so much.

Tina I woke up this morning and said turn on your tools fool! LOL

scirish said...

I know, I know!!! Shirley is admiring naked George?????

Mary/MI said...

Yah, that's it...what Scirish said!
I didn't look over her shoulder either. I don't cheaq like Tina!

Whabby, I will have to concentrate real hard and, or wait until one of our nest "smarties" comes up with an answer I can copy,,,er I mean relate to.

I have to run again. I am going to our monthly G.M. retirement lunch at our UAW club house. I don't necessarily go for the lunch, but for updates and seeing old friends. A lot of them are snow birds and will be leaving soon.
I also have an eye exam today...
toodle oooooooo!!

Mary/MI said...

Forgot, Congrats Tina!!
Morning LynnD and Scirish!!

Tina~in_ut said...

bear~ I can't seem to get past the first sentence! "me and naked George!"

Tina~in_ut said...

Good Morning LynnD, Scirish, and Mary~

Mary/MI said...

Tina, Excuse me!!that is ME and nekkid George!

night.owls.sb said...

Good Morning..

Tina.. Lynn.. Scirish.. Mary..

night.owls.sb said...

J/L..

Loved the QOTD.. cracked me up!

night.owls.sb said...

Tina...

That would be ur QOTD..

night.owls.sb said...

Whabby..

I just really like that you used the word "Dilation" kinda sends chills up my spine.. def in a fanowltastic way!

night.owls.sb said...

Tina...

No, today you certainly did not Cheaqt, so I will just call you a whore instead of a cheaqter.. :O)

night.owls.sb said...

We have lots of missing owls, and I just want to tell them I miss every one of you..

:O)

night.owls.sb said...

Mary,

Area 51.. You can surly play Maria, you have the charm, the wit, the Karaoke voice, and the huchi, cuchi bode! :O)

night.owls.sb said...

J/L..

Area 51, Hang in there, everything just needs time to heal..

night.owls.sb said...

Ok.. Off to work I go..

Zona said...

Good Morning!

BEAR: I fell asleep in my old chair..but the chiming of the clock woke me up..I grabbed my thinking cap..and here I am..ready to learn!!

I've read your blog..and it's evident to me that I need a new cap..I'm afraid I'm kinda lost. I'll read it again and see if I can figure anything out.

LYNN said Shirley is moving..I'm gonna guess it has something to do with the fact that she's floating, or off the ground..I'm grasping here..can you tell?? ;)

Zona said...

TINA: Congrats on ONE~!!

LYNND: I lost my house that way...freaked me out..!!

SCIRISH: I bet she is!!

MARY: Are the snowbirds headed our way? Have fun today!

CAROL: I get chills too..but for a completely different reason.. ;)

J/LIN: It WILL get better..{{hugs}}

JODI: I think I heard a distant 'woohoo' last night.. ;)

Hi ho Hi ho it's off to water the flowers I go.. ;)

Have a great day everyone!!

Zona said...

ATTN KMART SHOPPERS!!

I got a phone call this morning from VIG..she had a very weak internet connection, but was able to get through. She wanted me to tell everyone HI and that she will write when she finally gets a stronger more reliable connection. Except for one of the children telling her she looked like their Grandma..she's doing well!! :D

END OF ANNOUNCEMENT!

Zona said...

25!

goldie said...

Good Morning Hooters...
Congrats tina!

Thanks Zona for the Vig update!

Hope everyone has a good day!

whabbear said...

Morning, everybody!

Drat, damn, fuck! A correction to this weeks blog is needed:

90 billion plus 22 billion, five hundred million equals one hundred twelve billion, five hundred million (112,500,000) and the square root of 112,500,000 is just under 336,000.

Sorry, sorry, sorry, for anybody who got confused by the math error!

whabbear said...

Actually, it wasn't a math error, it was a stupid typo! The "912" in the blog should have been a "112".

Sorry again!

bonachichi said...

LynnD, I have to respectfully disagree with you on the men not being exact in measuring things. Ask any man how long his dong is. It's a safe bet he'll know.


About the time dilation brain experiment thing, I fully agree with you.

DeeDee said...

BAM!! 30

DeeDee said...

Ask me how long any mans dong is...I will probably know....ijs..

whabbear said...

About 5.5 inches erect.

Gloria said...

Whabby,
I was sitting here patiently waiting to see if you caught your error (typo). I immediately saw the mistake and did not want to come across like a smarty pants so I figured you would return at some point today and admire your work and BAM BAM you will see it.

Oh by the way, you asked what Shirley is doing...

Silly she is getting a pedi and mani as we speak.

Have a great day as I type this message at 80 words a minute.

bonachichi said...

And there you have it! The alpha owl knows!

As far as what Shirley's doing, she's moving isn't she? We need a name for the observer on the ground. George is inside Shirley and nekkid. Someone's watching from down below. Who wants to watch?

scirish said...

AWWWWWW!!!! Shirley I just read the post about you and your Mum. That is so terrific that you were able to go to her when she was feeling upset and frustrated. Kudos to you for knowing that that's what was needed...

sacBarb said...

Happy Wednesday Owls.

Bear, I'm with Zona, I need a new thinking cap. This one isn't working at all! Plus I am still distracted by George...

Sorry!

I am headed out for a mani and I'll BBL. I hope you all have a great day.

sacBarb said...

Tina, Congrats on not cheaqting to get #1.

Zona, I hope you watered my flowers too. And thanks for the update on VIG.

J/L, Take the pain killers if you are still that uncomfortable. That's what they are for.

Just_Lin said...

Bear I have to think about this later. I was going to point out the typo so am glad you saw it first. I have to eat something and go to the dentist.

In the meantime, I think Shirley is measuring George's erection. : )

Just_Lin said...

SacBarb It's not super painful anymore. More like soreness, discomfort, stinging.

Jodi said...

WHABBY - *hanging my head in shame* Sorry....still hurts my head!!

ZONA - I think I heard the same thing!!!

A repost from Area 51:

CAROL - Thank you....:O) :O) :O)

JUSTSLIN - Hang in there, it's got to get better soon!! (((HUGS)))!!!

Jodi said...

JUSTSLIN - Why does SHIRLEY get all the fun jobs?!!?

whabbear said...

Gloria: Good catch!

You're coming in late to this party. If you want to catch up, the series has been running every Wednesday since the beginning of August. Each blog builds on the ones before.

Sorry I'm hurting everybody's head! As usual, private tutoring via e-mail is encouraged and available!

whabbear said...

Or, just ask questions in the nest!

Lynn D said...

Afternoon owls!

I am beat! Crap I moved more food than a Weight Watchers meeting gone bad today!

Whabby I just knew there was something wrong with your figures! LMAO Not a Friggin' clue.

Bonacci ummmm in my experience most men over state the exact length of their dong region! imjs

Just/Lin I promise by the end of the week it will feel much better! It takes a bit.

Glad to know Viggy is doing well! thanks zona.

Tina~in_ut said...

J/L~ "It's not super painful anymore. More like soreness, discomfort, stinging." Soooooo...what you're saying is, you're getting used to the length and girth of George? :)~

Just_Lin said...

Tina It's that girth that causes the dilation.....ijs.

LynnD I know. Been here before with the upper but it's been years since then. I'm just feeling good enough to be impatient.

Jodi and Zona Thank you. :)

Carol One day at a time, as they say.

Just_Lin said...

47

Just_Lin said...

48

Just_Lin said...

49

Just_Lin said...

50

Just_Lin said...

Yay!

Maureen said...

I don't know what Shirley and George are doing, but I know what I'm doing...

...shaking my head - faster then the speed of sound - and wondering wtf is this about!

Bebbilane said...

Congrats on first again, Tina.

Whabby: Great blog...I think. I am totally lost. Sorry, I wish I could be more intellectual.


I am exhausted. Literally absolutely exhausted. I hope everyone is doing well.

bonachichi said...

Well Whab, you made me just curious enough to look into this time dilation and what did I find? A paper titled "Thought Expriments". A true sign of a sharp mind.

Maureen said...

TINA...I love a dare...cheaqter, cheaqter, cheaqter!!!!!

JUST LIN...glad you are not in that terrible pain anymore!

Bebbilane said...

Zona: Thanks for the update on Vig.

Carol: Sorry for being MIA as usual. Mr. Bebbi had a little emergency room visit last Friday and my Mom had surgery today. My son said it best, "Mom, I have been seeing a little too much of this hospital lately.". Hopefully, our hospital visits will be more few and far between soon. Mom comes home tomorrow and I just realized I didn't go and get her dog tonight, so after going to be at 2pm (thanks a LOT big brother 11 finale and backyard interviews with Evel Dick)..I got up at 5 am and took mom to the hospital by 6:30 a.m. and got a whopping 15 minute power nap in about 2pm today. So, off to bed for me and go, go,go tomorrow, row,row.

Bebbilane said...

Am I rambling?

Bebbilane said...

screw it.

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Bebbilane said...

Awwwww.......mmmmmmmmm. NOW i can sleep.

Bebbilane said...

2am..not 2pm...silly me.

bonachichi said...

J/Lin, sorry your mouth is giving you trouble. I thought you took it amazingly well.

Bebbi; nice to see you here. Last time I saw you, you'd been kidnapped and were behind bars. Just standing there, happy as you please.

I'm off to do some light reading about expriments.

Bebbilane said...

2am..and 2pm...in that order. I love Jay Leno. I can sleep so much better now that Headlines are back on Monday. I don't care if it is an hour earlier.

Bebbilane said...

okay..bye.

bonachichi said...

Whab, the shortest question I can think of is, "Who is looking at which stopwatch?" Wouldn't it take time for the image of each stopwatch to travel between the two bodies? Wouldn't any normal person stop there and conclude that's the reason for the delay?

There's more, you say? It's not that simple? Will we just have to wait?

bonachichi said...

Who spiked Bebbi's punch?

whabbear said...

Bon: No, there is no need for the images of the two stopwatches to travel between you. George measures the time on his stopwatch, and you measure the time on yours, and you compare the values later.

Remember, when the flash of light returns to Shirley's floor, her glass bottom is programmed to reflect the light back at your eyes. You stop your stopwatch when you see the flash, just like George does. Your stopwatch is smart enough to automatically subtract the time it takes the light to travel back from her bottom to your eyes. What's left over is the time it took for the light to travel up to the top of Shirley's shaft and back down to her floor, from your perspective.

Just_Lin said...

Bear Does it have something to do with the velocity of the spacecraft?

MO Thank you! xoxo

Bonach Except for small irritations, I am doing extremely well, thank you. I'm just anxious to be back in prime rib chewing form. It has been only 5 days. I guess I'm a tad impatient. :)

whabbear said...

J/L: YES! In the extra time that it takes the pulse to cover that 72,000 kilometers, Shirley is not standing still... she's continuing to move at 150,000 kps. So what does that mean for Line B?

That is what I'll talk about next Wednesday!

Just_Lin said...

Bear If the spacecraft is within gravitational pull of the earth, it will be traveling on a slight curve, really, won't it, and not a true straight line?

whabbear said...

J/L: Yuck! Yes, and more, but please, let's not go there! That's general relativity. For the purposes of this thought experiment, it's important that the only factor governing changes in our time measurements is Shirley's constant motion, and what that motion does to the shape of the right-angle triangle (i.e. how it affects Line B). Gravity is absent from the situation.

Just_Lin said...

Bear Okay. I'm just thinking out loud, so to speak.

Susan Boyle just sang Wild Horses on America's Got Talent. Beautiful!

Zona said...

Dang there are a lot of flowers to water...sheesh!! ;)

Goodnight everyone..Sweet dreams!!

Just_Lin said...

Good night, Zona!